[politics] About those troops...

[holzman_tweed]

Something I've just got to get off my chest...

But why should we hear about body bags and deaths and how many, what day it's going to happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Oh, I mean, it's, not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?
-- Barbara Bush, ABC's "Good Morning America", March 18, 2003

Let them eat cake.

-- Marie Antionette

It's approximately 500, of which -- I can get the exact numbers -- approximately 350 are combat deaths.
-- Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, 29 April 2004, testifying before a House Appropriations Subcommittee

There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men for this treachery.
-- Treebeard

---

OK. I've got to talk some about the recent stories coming out about American soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners. I'm so angry, I can feel my blood pressure shoot up just thinking about it.

If you haven't seen the photos yourself, you can find them without much work at all. I will not pollute my journal with them.

The soldiers in these photos and all soldiers not photographed, but still participated are guilty of the following crimes:

• They have committed torture, in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ.
  
• They have committed rape, in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ.
  
• They have committed assault, in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ.
  
• They have digraced their uniforms, in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ.
  
• They have placed each and every American soldier who might be captured by anyone anywhere at risk of torture and other mistreatment by abrogating the Geneva Conventions, in violation of the UCMJ.
  
• They have committed insubordination, in violation of the UCMJ.
  
• They have jeapordized any attempt the U.S. might make at convincing the people of Iraq that there is any difference whatsoever between us and Saddam Hussein.
  
• The Gods know what else they may have committed.
  

There is only one possible defense against these crimes: the photoshop defense. The only way these people can possible be innocent is if the photos themselves are fraudulent.

Absent that defense, there can be only one punishment for these crimes: Upon conviction, a gibbet must be constructed in Iraq, in front of the very prison in which these crimes were committed. These people must be drummed out of the United States Military in all disgrace, in full view of their fellow soldiers and the people of Iraq. There must be no mistake to be made in any quarter that the United States as a nation and the United States military in particular cast these people out as abhorrent to everything we stand for.

Then they must be hanged by the neck until dead. Every last one of them.

And damn sure they aren't getting buried at Arlington.

The officers who didn't participate, but were negligent in supervision, in giving sufficient guidance on how to conduct oneself -- they can spend a few decades in Leavenworth contemplating their gross negligence.

Nothing less will preserve the honor of the United States military. Nothing less will send the message that these "soldiers" were not acting in accordance with the policies of the government of the United States. Nothing less is supporting the troops -- who now stand in grave danger of all manner of mistreatment should anyone capture them anywhere.

Thank the Gods the generals understand what's at stake here, at least.

Comments

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

Danny, do you mind if I point wcg --a retired Marine master sergeant-- at this entry? I'd be curious to see his thoughts on this matter and your proposed punishments.

[holzman.livejournal.com]

By all means.

[adoka.livejournal.com]

I disagree. The officers should be hanged because they are responsible for the actions of their troops. The troopers should be imprisoned in Leavenworth or in an Iraqi prison, perhaps the same one.

[holzman.livejournal.com]

I should have been more clear. I regard officers on the scene as accomplices to the crime. It's the policy makers in DC who were responsible for briefing the soldiers on things like the Geneva Conventions (which at least one accused soldier denies ever being told about) who I think should be heading to Leavenworth.

I see no reason to let the troopers off the hook for their actions, particularly given that they were apparently acting on their own initiative.

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

*sigh* Washington Post reports that US officials confirmed the images as authentic.

Which US officials aren't mentioned, but still...

[luis-mw.livejournal.com]

Don't you think Leavenworth would be a bit kind? I'm sure that once power is handed over to the Iraqi people, they would welcome some "guests" in their prisons.

What is also worrying is the role of "private contractors" in this, since they are effectively outside military jursidiction. In fact, I'm not sure what jurisdiction they would come under. What law applies in Iraq at the moment? US law? Military law? Iraq law?

Whatever else, it is absolutely vital that it is made VERY CLEAR that this is not the policy of the USA (don't mention Camp X-Ray) or other occupying powers. It's good to see the generals at least are condemning it. Has the President done so yet? I want to hear it from his mouth.

[holzman.livejournal.com]

What is also worrying is the role of "private contractors" in this

I haven't heard that any mercenaries were involved with this, but I'm uncertain what laws they're subject to in any event.

Has the President done so yet? I want to hear it from his mouth.

Credit where it's due:

Q What is your reaction to photos of U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners? How are you going to win their hearts and minds with these sort of tactics?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Yes, I shared a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated. Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people. That's not the way we do things in America. And so I -- I didn't like it one bit.

But I also want to remind people that those few people who did that do not reflect the nature of the men and women we've sent overseas. That's not the way the people are, that's not their character, that are serving our nation in the cause of freedom. And there will be an investigation. I think -- they'll be taken care of.

Remarks by President Bush and Prime Minister Martin of Canada in a Press Availability

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

But with what speed will that investigation occur: the 9/11 commission, the Enron case?

[holzman.livejournal.com]

Hopefully, it's being made clear to Bush in terms even he can understand that this is not something that can be expected to go away or covered up. If he doesn't act with haste, even the UK will have trouble staying involved.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

The way it works is like this:

-- Criminal Investigation, 2 to 6 weeks
-- Empanel General Court Martial board and conduct Article 32 (military grand jury) investigation, 3 to 6 months
-- Formal charges and conduct trials, 1.5 to 2 months for each trial.
-- Review by Convening Authority, 2 to 4 weeks

The suspects can be held in pretrial confinement if they are considered a flight risk. Any sentence including confinement and/or fine may be imposed upon a verdict of guilty. Sentences including dishonorable discharge or loss of life may not be imposed until review by both Convening Authority and Reviewing Authority (the Secretary of Defense in a capital case) is complete.

Yes, with what what speed and what surety?

[deedeebythebay.livejournal.com]

What worries me is Bush's "I think" tossed in there.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

While I'm in general agreement with you, I would prefer to let the UCMJ work as designed. There will be an Article 32 investigation, and after that there will be General Courts Martial. If the Article 32 investigation determines that those found guilty before the GCM were guilty of warcrimes or crimes against humanity, then the guilty parties should either be turned over to Competent Civil Authority (assuming there is such a thing in Iraq) or to the International Court of Justice at the Hague, just as we turned over military personnel taken in Bosnia and Kosovo.

What I'm particularly hoping that the Article 32 investigation will reveal is the role of the "Civilian Interrogators" who apparently were aware of the actions of the guards and who encouraged them in their actions. Those "Civilian Interrogators" (whether CIA, FBI, or Blackwater Security is not clear) have much to answer for. Their presence and their direction does not forgive the guards, but it certainly adds a complication to this matter that ought properly to be explained before a Court Martial board.

The General officer in command, and her staff, are at very least guilty of gross negligence in the performance of their duties. Again, the Article 32 investigation will examine the extent of their culpability, and whether or not they are guilty of gross negligence or of conspiracy to commit crimes against humanity.

Military executions are by lethal injection these days. However, members of the US Armed Forces have been hanged by foreign governments with which we have Status of Forces agreements. This happens most frequently in Japan.

The one bright spot in all this is the guy who turned in the pictures for investigation. He's a brave man, and an honorable soldier.

[holzman.livejournal.com]

Obviously, you're more familiar with the UCMJ than I. The Article 32 investigation and General Courts Martial are about what I had in mind.

I was under the impression that Paul Bremer is the "Competent Civil Authority" in Iraq. I was also under the impression that while the U.S. is happy to hand foreign soldiers to the Hague, it is a matter of U.S. law that the President is to invade the Hague should they have an American soldier in custody. I could be mistaken about the status of the "Hague invasion act," though.

I'm right there with you on the question of "Civilian Interrogators."

I can live with public lethal injection, or turning them over to Bremer for hanging. My point there is just that it's got to be public, that the Iraqis must see that it is our policy that this is unacceptable, and that no one will be able to say we faked their deaths as was suggested about the Hussein boys.

I agree with you about the guy who turned the pictres in.